Thinking about Interfaces in Go

This post is going to explain the importance of interfaces, and the concept of programming to abstractions (using the Go programming language), by way of a simple example.

While treading what might seem like familiar ground to some readers, this is a fundamental skill to understand because it enables you to design more flexible and maintable services.

Interfaces in Go

An ‘interface’ is a contract which describes behaviour (not data).

Andrei Boar said…

When defining interfaces in Go, you don’t define what something is but what it provides — behavior, not things! That’s why there’s no File interface in Go, but a Reader and a Writer: these are behaviors, and File is a thing implementing Reader and Writer.

…which is important because this has a direct effect on the naming of an interface. You name interfaces with an -er at the end to indicate it’s a verb (i.e. this thing does something).

In Go an interface is defined like so:

type Fooer interface {
    Bar(s string) (string, error)
}

NOTE: In Go, a capitalised name (method, field etc) is public, lowercase is private.

If an object in your code implements a Bar function, with the exact same signature (e.g. accepts a string and returns either a string or an error), then that object is said to implement the Fooer interface.

An example of this would be:

type thing struct{}

func (l *thing) Bar(s string) (string, error) {
  ...
}

Now you can define a function that will accept that object, as long as it fulfils the Fooer interface, like so:

func doStuffWith(thing Foo)

This is different to other languages, where you have to explicitly assign an interface type to an object, like with Java:

class testClass implements Foo

Because of this flexibility in how interfaces are ‘applied’, it also means that an object could end up implementing multiple interfaces.

For example, imagine we have the following two interfaces:

type Fooer interface {
  Bar(s string) (string, error)
}

type Beeper interface {
  Beep(s string) (string, error)
}

We can define an object that fulfils both interfaces simply by implementing the functions they define:

type thing struct{}

func (l *thing) Bar(s string) (string, error) {
  ...
}

func (l *thing) Beep(s string) (string, error) {
  ...
}

NOTE: This is a bit of silly example, and so you’ll notice the method signature for each type is effectively the same. Be careful when designing your interfaces, because in this case we could possibly combine these two interfaces into a single (more generic) interface.

Name Your Interface Arguments

Consider the following interface:

type Mover interface {
  Move(context.Context, string, string) error
}

Do you know what the second and third arguments refer to and how the function will use them?

Now consider this refactored version where the arguments have names associated with them:

type Mover interface {
  Move(context.Context, source string, destination string) error
}

Now that is better, because we can clearly see what the expectations are: the second argument is the ‘source’ and the third argument is the ‘destination’.

Keep Interfaces Small

You’ll find in the Go Proverbs, the following useful tip:

The bigger the interface, the weaker the abstraction.

The reason for this is due to how interfaces are designed in Go and the fact that an object can potentially support multiple interfaces.

By making an interface too big, we reduce an object’s ability to support it. Consider the following example:

type FooBeeper interface {
  Bar(s string) (string, error)
  Beep(s string) (string, error)
}

type thing struct{}

func (l *thing) Bar(s string) (string, error) {
  ...
}

func (l *thing) Beep(s string) (string, error) {
  ...
}

type differentThing struct{}

func (l *differentThing) Bar(s string) (string, error) {
  ...
}

type anotherThing struct{}

func (l *anotherThing) Beep(s string) (string, error) {
  ...
}

In the above example we’ve defined a FooBeeper interface that requires two methods: Bar and Beep. Now if we look at the various objects we’ve defined thing, differentThing and anotherThing we’ll find:

thing: fulfils the FooBeeper interface
differentThing: does not fulfil the FooBeeper interface
anotherThing: does not fulfil the FooBeeper interface

Alternatively, if we were to break the FooBeeper interface up into separate smaller interfaces (like we demonstrated earlier), then in our above example, the differentThing and anotherThing would become more re-usable.

That’s ultimately what this Go proverb is suggesting: smaller interfaces allow for greater code reuse.

Accept Interfaces, Return Concrete Types

If your function accepts a concrete type then you’ve limited the consumers ability to provide different implementations.

Consider a function only accepting the concrete type *os.File instead of the io.Writer interface. Now try swapping out the os.File implementation in a test environment, you’ll have a hard time vs mocking this using a struct that has the relevant interface methods.

Unless there is a good reason to, you should return concrete types instead of interfaces. This is because an interface has a tendency to add an unnecessary layer of indirection for consumers of your package (although we’ll discover a few valid scenarios where returning an interface is more appropriate).

Below is an example of what I mean by indirection. We have a function foo that returns the interface Fooer, and yet we want to access a field on the underlying type of the interface (which we can see is a S struct type):

package main

import (
	"fmt"
	"log"
)

type Fooer interface {
	Bar()
}

type S struct {
	Debug bool
}

func (s S) Bar() {
	fmt.Println("bar called")
}

func foo() Fooer {
	return S{true}
}

func main() {
	f := foo()
	fmt.Printf("Type: %T\n", f) // main.S
	fmt.Printf("Representation: %+v\n", f) // {Debug:true}
	f.Bar()
	fmt.Println(f.Debug) // ERROR: f.Debug undefined (type Fooer has no field or method Debug)
}

We can see from the above code that we’re able to call the Bar method (as it’s part of the public interface) but we can’t access the Debug field, even though it’s declared as a public field.

So how can we access the Debug field? We need to use a type assertion to get access to the interface’s underlying value:

s, ok := f.(S)
if !ok {
  log.Fatal("couldn't coerce f to S")
}
fmt.Println(s.Debug) // true

This is the ‘indirection’ I was referring to, and is a tedious step for a consumer of this code. They wouldn’t need to do this if our foo function had returned the concrete S type.

Don’t Return Concrete Types

This is to keep you on your toes 😉

I want to highlight an important ‘design’ decision, which is: if your code returns a pointer to some data, then it means once that pointer has been passed around a few different functions, we now have multiple entities that are able to mutate that data.

So be careful about whether you return a value (immutable) vs a pointer (mutable) as it could help reduce confusion with regards to how the data is modified by your program.

Returning an interface in these cases could be an appropriate solution.

By this I mean: although you might return a pointer to a data structure, by defining an interface around the behaviours attached to that data structure, it means a caller of your function won’t be able to access the internal fields of the struct but it can call the methods defined in the returned interface!

Another example might be that your function needs to return a different type depending on a runtime condition (*cough* generics *cough*). If that’s the case, then returning an interface could again be an appropriate workaround to the lack of generics in the Go 1.x language.

The following code example highlights the principle:

type Itemer interface {
	GetItemValue() string
}

type Item struct {
	ID int
}

type URLItem struct {
	Item
	URL string
}

type TextItem struct {
	Item
	Text string
}

func (ui URLItem) GetItemValue(){
	return ui.URL
}

func (ti TextItem) GetItemValue(){
	return ti.Text
}

func FindItem(ID int) Itemer {
  // returns either a URLItem or a TextItem
}

The FindItem could be an internal library function that attempts to locate an item via multiple data sources. Depending on which data source the item was found, the type returned will change.

In this instance returning an interface allows the consumer to not have to worry about the change in underlying data types.

NOTE: It’s possible the returned types could be consolidated into a single generic type struct, which means we can avoid returning an interface, but it depends on the exact scenario/use case.

Use Existing Interfaces

It’s important to not ‘reinvent the wheel’ and to utilise existing interfaces wherever possible (otherwise you’ll suffer from a condition known as ‘interface pollution’).

The golang toolchain offers a tool called Go Guru which helps you to navigate Go code.

It’s a command line tool, but it’s designed to be utilised from within an editor (like Atom or Vim etc).

Here is a list of the sub commands available:

callees         show possible targets of selected function call
callers         show possible callers of selected function
callstack       show path from callgraph root to selected function
definition      show declaration of selected identifier
describe        describe selected syntax: definition, methods, etc
freevars        show free variables of selection
implements      show 'implements' relation for selected type or method
peers           show send/receive corresponding to selected channel op
pointsto        show variables the selected pointer may point to
referrers       show all refs to entity denoted by selected identifier
what            show basic information about the selected syntax node
whicherrs       show possible values of the selected error variable

This can be really useful for identifying (for example) whether a new interface you’ve defined is similar to an existing interface.

To demonstrate this, consider the following example…

// this is a duplicate of fmt.Stringer interface
type Stringer interface {
	String() string
}

type testthing struct{}

func (t testthing) String() string {
	return "a test thing"
}

The Stringer interface I’ve defined is actually a duplication of the existing standard library interface fmt.Stringer.

So using Guru via my Vim editor I can see (when I have my cursor over the testthing struct and I call Guru) that this concrete type implements not only stringit but a few other interfaces…

/main.go:33.6-33.14:                                                 struct type testthing
/usr/local/Cellar/go/1.10.3/libexec/src/fmt/print.go:62.6-62.13:     implements fmt.Stringer
/main.go:29.6-29.13:                                                 implements Stringer
/usr/local/Cellar/go/1.10.3/libexec/src/runtime/error.go:66.6-66.13: implements runtime.stringer

Now whether you continue to define a new interface is up to you. There are actually quite a few places in the Go standard library where interfaces are duplicated for (what I believe to be) semantic reasoning, but otherwise if you don’t need to make an explicit/semantic distinction, then I’d opt to reuse an existing interface.

NOTE: For more details on how to use Guru, see this gist.

Don’t Force Interfaces

If your code doesn’t require interfaces, then don’t use them.

No point making the design of your code more complicated for no reason. Consider the following code which returns an interface.

NOTE: The following example is modified from a much older post by William Kennedy.

package main

import "fmt"

// Server defines a contract for tcp servers.
type Server interface {
	Start()
}

type server struct{}

// NewServer returns an interface value of type Server
func NewServer() Server {
	return &server{}
}

// Start allows the server to begin to accept requests.
func (s *server) Start() {
	fmt.Println("start called")
}

func main() {
	s := NewServer()
	fmt.Printf("%+v (%T)\n", s, s)
	s.Start()
}

The use of an interface here is a bit pointless. We should instead just return a pointer to an exported version of the server struct because the user is gaining no benefits from an interface being returned by NewServer (see Don’t Return Concrete Types for a possible use case for returning interfaces, but the above example is not one of them).

⚠️ There is also an important performance consideration to using interfaces that is often neglected: method calls on an interface type will be using dynamic dispatch not static dispatch and in a code hot path that can be a problem because the memory associated with the call can escape to the heap (stack memory is much more efficient). Consider r had an interface type io.Reader. A call to r.Read(b) would result in both the value of r and the backing array of the b byte slice to be allocated onto the heap.

Embedding Interfaces

Sometimes a code base will define a very large interface. Now we can probably agree it’s not a good idea but let’s just accept that in the real-world this kind of thing happens.

One place where a large interface can cause problems is with testing.

If a function accepts an interface but in reality only uses one method from the interface, then you might find yourself getting frustrated at the idea of having to implement a mock version of each method!

Well, to avoid that situation try taking advantage of Go’s ability to embed an interface into a struct.

By embedding the interface into your struct, you automatically promote all of the methods to the embedding struct. Now, you can pass your mock struct to the function and the compiler will be happy. You now only need to implement the methods you need to assert the test scenario you’re trying to validate.

type Exampler interface {
	Foo() error
	Bar() error
	Baz() error
	// ...lots more...
}

func example(e Exampler) error {
  err := e.Foo()
  if err != nil {
    return err
  }

  // ...other stuff...

  return nil
}

type mock struct{
  Example // embedded interface
}

// We're only implementing one method, not all three!
func (m *mock) Foo() error {
  return errors.New("whoops")
}

func TestExample(t *testing.T) {
    example(&mock{}) // we expect the function to fail due to our mock behaviour
}

But be aware that because you’re not providing a concrete implementation of the interface when instantiating your struct, it means that the value of that embedded field will be nil. This means that if the function you pass your struct into calls any of the interface methods not implemented by your mock struct, then there will be a runtime ‘nil pointer dereference’ error (but I argue that’s a good thing because in a test environment you want to know if your code is calling something for real).

Upgrading Interfaces

If you use have an interface that’s used by lots of people, how do you add a new method to it without breaking their code? The moment you add a new method to the interface, their existing code that handles the concrete implementation will fail.

Unfortunately there isn’t a completely clean solution to this problem. In essence the original interface needs to stay untouched and we need to define a new interface that contains the new behaviour. Then the consumer’s of an interface will continue to reference the original interface while using a type assertion within their functions for the new interface.

Below is an example of this problem in action:

package main

import "fmt"

type Fooer interface {
	bar() string
	baz() string // new method added, which breaks the code
}

func doThing(f Fooer) {
	fmt.Println("bar:", f.bar())
}

type point struct {
	X, Y int
}

func (p point) bar() string {
	return fmt.Sprintf("p=%d, y=%d", p.X, p.Y)
}

func main() {
	var pt point
	pt.X = 1
	pt.Y = 2

	doThing(pt)
}

In the above code we can see we have added a new method baz to our Fooer interface which means the concrete implementation pt is no longer satisfying the Fooer interface as it has no baz method.

NOTE: I appreciate the example is a bit silly because we could just update the code to support the new interface, but we have to imagine a world where your interface is provided as part of a public package that is consumed by lots of users.

To solve this problem we need an intermediate interface. The following example demonstrates the process. The steps are…

define a new interface containing the new method
add the method to the concrete type implementation
document the new interface and ask your interface consumers to type assert for it

package main

import "fmt"

type Fooer interface {
	bar() string
}

type Newfooer interface {
	baz() string
}

// We want a `Fooer` interface type, but if that valid type can also do the new
// behaviour, then we'll execute that behaviour...

func doThing(f Fooer) {
	if nf, ok := f.(Newfooer); ok {
		fmt.Println("baz:", nf.baz())
	}
	fmt.Println("bar:", f.bar())
}

// Original concrete implementation...

type point struct {
	X, Y int
}

func (p point) bar() string {
	return fmt.Sprintf("p=%d, y=%d", p.X, p.Y)
}

// New concrete implementation of `point` struct (has the new method)...

type newpoint struct {
	point
}

func (np newpoint) baz() string {
	return fmt.Sprintf("np !!! %d, ny !!! %d", np.X, np.Y)
}

func main() {
	var pt point
	pt.X = 1
	pt.Y = 2

	doThing(pt)

	var npt newpoint
	npt.X = 3
	npt.Y = 4

	doThing(npt)
}

NOTE: Again, the example is a bit silly in that we’re handling everything within a single file, whereas in reality the consumer won’t have access to the original interface/implementation code like we do here (so just use your imagination 🙂).

The output of the above code is as follows:

bar: p=1, y=2
baz: np !!! 3, ny !!! 4
bar: p=3, y=4

So we can see we called doThing and passed a concrete type that satisfied the Fooer interface and so that function called the bar method it was expecting to exist. Next we called doThing again but passed a different concrete type that not only satisfied the Fooer interface, but the Newfooer interface and within doThing we type assert that the object passed in is not only a Fooer but a Newfooer.

What would this look like in practice then? Well, if the Go standard library wanted to add a new method to the existing (and very popular) net/http package ResponseWriter interface: they would create a new interface with just the new behaviour defined, then they would document its existence and in that documentation they would explain that if your HTTP handler required the new behaviour, then you should type assert for it.

Imagine if the go standard library just updated the ResponseWriter with the new method? Lots and lots of existing HTTP server code would break as the concrete implementation that was passed through would not support that implementation.

In fact this is exactly what the go standard library authors have done with the Flusher and Hijacker interfaces. The following code demonstrates the use of a type assertion to access the additional behaviour defined by those interfaces:

func(w http.ResponseWriter, r *http.Request) {
        io.WriteString(w, "This will arrive before... ")

        if fl, ok := w.(http.Flusher); ok {
                fl.Flush()
                time.Sleep(1 * time.Second)
        }

        io.WriteString(w, "...this bit does.")
}

Standard Library Interfaces

Imagine we have a function process, whose responsibility is to make a HTTP request and do something with the response data:

package main

import (
	"fmt"
	"io/ioutil"
	"net/http"
)

func process(n int) (string, error) {
	url := fmt.Sprintf("http://httpbin.org/links/%d/0", n)

	resp, err := http.Get(url)
	if err != nil {
		fmt.Printf("url get error: %s\n", err)
		return "", err
	}

	defer resp.Body.Close()

	body, err := ioutil.ReadAll(resp.Body)
	if err != nil {
		fmt.Printf("body read error: %s\n", err)
		return "", err
	}

	return string(body), nil
}

func main() {
	data, err := process(5)
	if err != nil {
		fmt.Printf("\ndata processing error: %s\n", err)
		return
	}
	fmt.Printf("Success: %v", data)
}

We can see our process function accepts an integer, which is interpolated into the URL that is requested. We then use the http.Get function from the net/http package to request the URL.

The function then stringify’s the response body and returns it. This is sufficient for a basic example, but in the real world this function would likely do lots more processing to the response data.

It may not be immediately obvious but there are already many instances where interfaces are being utilised. Let’s break down the code and see what interfaces there are.

The http.Get function returns a pointer to a http.Response struct, and from within that struct we extract the Body field and pass it to ioutil.ReadAll.

The Body field’s ‘type’ is set to the io.ReadCloser interface. If we look at that interface we’ll see it’s made up of nested interface types:

type ReadCloser interface {
    Reader
    Closer
}

If we now look at the io.Reader and io.Closer interfaces, we’ll find:

type Reader interface {
    Read(p []byte) (n int, err error)
}

type Closer interface {
    Close() error
}

This means that for the response body object to be valid, it must support the Read and Close functions defined by these interfaces (the returned object will likely include other functions, but it needs Read and Close at a minimum).

The next thing that happens in the code is that we pass http.Response.Body to an input/output function called ioutil.ReadAll.

If we look at the signature of ioutil.ReadAll we’ll see that it accepts a type of io.Reader, which we’ve seen already, and so this is another indication of why smaller interfaces enable re-usability.

What the io.Reader interface means for our code is that the input we provide to ioutil.ReadAll must support a Read function, and (because http.Response.Body implements the io.ReadCloser interface) we know it does implement that required function.

So already we’ve seen quite a few built-in interfaces being utilised to support the standard library code we’re using. More importantly, you’ll find the use of these interfaces (io.ReadCloser, io.Reader, io.Closer and others) are used everywhere in the Go codebase (highlighting again how small interfaces enable greater code re-usability).

Tight Coupling

Now there’s an issue with the above code, specifically the process function, and that is we’ve tightly coupled the net/http package to the function.

What this means is that the process function has to intrinsically know about HTTP and dealing with the various methods available to that package.

Also, if we want to test this function we’re going to have a harder time because the http.Get call would need to be mocked somehow. We don’t want our test suite to have to rely on a stable network connection or the fact that the endpoint being requested might be down for maintenance.

The solution to this problem is to invert the responsibility of the process function, also known as ‘dependency injection’. This is the basis of one of the S.O.L.I.D principles: ‘inversion of control’.

Dependency Injection

If we call a function, then it is our responsibility to provide it with all the things it needs in order to do its job.

In the case of our process function, it needs to be able to acquire data from somewhere (that could be a file, it could be a remote procedure call, it shouldn’t matter). The most important aspect to consider is how it acquires that data.

The how is not the responsibility of the process function, especially if we decide later on that we want to change the implementation from HTTP to GRPC or some other data source.

Meaning, we need to provide that functionality to the process function. Let’s see what this might look like in practice:

NOTE: This is just a first iteration, and is a poor design because although it shifts the problem slightly, there will still be tight coupling. I’ll come back to this code later and refactor away the coupling completely. The reason I’ve not done that upfront is because there are learnings to be had from trying to write tests for this code (which we’ll see in a minute).

package main

import (
	"fmt"
	"io/ioutil"
	"net/http"
)

type Getter interface {
	Get(url string) (*http.Response, error)
}

type httpbin struct{}

func (l *httpbin) Get(url string) (*http.Response, error) {
	resp, err := http.Get(url)
	if err != nil {
		fmt.Printf("url get error: %s\n", err)
		return &http.Response{}, err
	}

	return resp, nil
}

func process(n int, g Getter) (string, error) {
	url := fmt.Sprintf("http:/httpbin.org/links/%d/0", n)

	resp, err := g.Get(url)
	if err != nil {
		fmt.Printf("data source get error: %s\n", err)
		return "", err
	}

	defer resp.Body.Close()

	body, err := ioutil.ReadAll(resp.Body)
	if err != nil {
		fmt.Printf("body read error: %s\n", err)
		return "", err
	}

	return string(body), nil
}

func main() {
	data, err := process(5, &httpbin{})
	if err != nil {
		fmt.Printf("\ndata processing error: %s\n", err)
		return
	}
	fmt.Printf("\nSuccess: %v\n", data)
}

Refactoring Considerations

Let’s start by looking at the interface we’ve defined:

type Getter interface {
	Get(url string) (*http.Response, error)
}

We’ve not been overly explicit when naming this interface Getter. Its name is quite generic on purpose so as not to imply an underlying implementation bias.

Unfortunately the defined Get method is still too tightly coupled to a specific implementation (i.e. it specifies http.Response as a return type).

Meaning, that although the refactored code is better, it is far from perfect.

Next we define our own object for handling the implementation of the Get method, which internally is going to use http.Get to acquire the data:

type httpbin struct{}

func (l *httpbin) Get(url string) (*http.Response, error) {
	resp, err := http.Get(url)
	if err != nil {
		fmt.Printf("url get error: %s\n", err)
		return &http.Response{}, err
	}

	return resp, nil
}

By using this interface as the accepted type in the process function signature, we’re going to be able to decouple the function from having to acquire the data, and thus allow testing to become much easier (as we’ll see shortly), but the process function is still fundamentally coupled to HTTP as the underlying transport mechanism.

The reason this is a problem is because the process function still knows that the returned object is a http.Response because it has to reference the Body field of the response, which isn’t defined on the object we’ve injected (meaning the function intrinsically knows of its existence).

How far you take your interface design is up to you. You don’t necessarily have to solve all possible concerns at once (unless there really is a need to do so).

Meaning, this refactor could be considered ‘good enough’ for your use cases. Alternatively your values and standards may differ, and so you need to consider your options for how you might what to design this solution in such a way that it would allow the code to not be so reliant on HTTP as the transport mechanism.

NOTE: We’ll revisit this code later and consider another refactor that will help clean up this first pass of code decoupling.

But first, let’s look at how we might want to test this initial code refactor (as testing this code allows us to learn some interesting things when it comes to needing to mock interfaces).

Testing

Below is a simple test suite that demonstrates how we’re now able to construct our own object, with a stubbed response, and pass that to the process function:

package main

import (
	"bytes"
	"io/ioutil"
	"net/http"
	"testing"
)

type fakeHTTPBin struct{}

func (l *fakeHTTPBin) Get(url string) (*http.Response, error) {
	body := "Hello World"

	resp := &http.Response{
		Body:          ioutil.NopCloser(bytes.NewBufferString(body)),
		ContentLength: int64(len(body)),
		StatusCode:    http.StatusOK,
		Request:       &http.Request{},
	}

	return resp, nil
}

func TestBasics(t *testing.T) {
	expect := "Hello World"
	actual, _ := process(5, &fakeHTTPBin{})

	if actual != expect {
		t.Errorf("expected %s, actual %s", expect, actual)
	}
}

Much like we do in the real implementation, we define a struct (in this case we’ve named it more explicitly) fakeHTTPBin.

The difference now, and what allows us to test our code is that we’re manually creating a http.Response object with dummy data.

One part of this code that requires some extra explanation would be the value assigned to the response Body field:

ioutil.NopCloser(bytes.NewBufferString(body))

If we remember from earlier:

The Body field’s ‘type’ is set to the io.ReadCloser interface.

This means when mocking the Body value we need to return something that has both a Read and Close method. So we’ve used ioutil.NopCloser which, if we look at its signature, we see returns an io.ReadCloser interface:

func NopCloser(r io.Reader) io.ReadCloser

The io.ReadCloser interface is exactly what we need (as that interface indicates the returned concrete type will indeed implement the required Read and Close methods).

But to use it we need to provide the NopCloser function something that supports the io.Reader interface.

If we were to provide a simple string like "Hello World", then this wouldn’t implement the required interface. So we wrap the string in a call to bytes.NewBufferString.

The reason we do this is because the returned type is something that supports the io.Reader interface we need.

But that might not be immediately obvious when looking at the signature for bytes.NewBufferString:

func NewBufferString(s string) *Buffer

So yes it accepts a string, but we want an io.Reader as the return type, whereas this function returns a pointer to a Buffer type?

If we look at the implementation of Buffer though, we will see that it does actually implement the required Read function necessary to support the io.Reader interface.

Great! Our test can now call the process function and process the mocked dependency and the code/test works as intended.

NOTE: Yes, we should probably use something more obvious and replace bytes.NewBufferString with something like bytes.NewReader, strings.NewReader.

Conclusion

Is there more we can do to improve this code’s design? Sure. But we’ll leave a new refactor iteration to another post.

Hopefully this has given you a feeling for how interfaces are used in the Go standard library and how you might utilise custom interfaces yourself.